Welcome to Arctic Canada, the culture curator, the podcast all about Canada's Arctic, the land, climate, animals, people, culture, and what it can teach the rest of the world. I'm your host, Rob Fagan. Kylik Kasoon Taylor is the owner operator of Tunda North Tours, a tourism company based out of Inuvik, Northwest Territories, Canada, offering unique Arctic experiences such as spending a night in an igloo village, wrangling reindeer, and visiting Tuktoyaktuk in the Beaufort Sea, where you can actually experience a pingo firsthand. Kylik recently won the 2019 National Aboriginal Youth Entrepreneur Award from the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business, and we're lucky enough to have Kylik with us today. Welcome, Kylik.

Hello. Happy to be here.

A couple of things too, Kylik. I mean, you're some of the things that have been in papers recently and other publications. Just amazing what your, your company is achieving. I know there was an article in the LA Times recently about your, your company, which is fantastic to see that. You know, seeing that down in Los Angeles, that type of coverage is super. So that was one of your clients that wrote that, wasn't it?

Yeah, yeah, we had a partnership with the Indigenous Tourism association, and we brought up Margot, who is a writer traveler. And yeah, she came up for four days and experienced our signature experience and then wrote that great article.

That's fantastic. No, it's really great to see the coverage coming out about.

We've been really blessed with the support that we've gotten to be able to put these things together. And it was really interesting because we were out building that day building igloos and I missed a bunch of calls from California. That's kind of weird. And then I got home, I was like, ah, that article just came out. So. Yeah, yeah, it was pretty. Pretty. The actual. I think that that one, out of all the articles we've had, had the quickest kind of turnaround for people to actually be calling us and looking to book tours and that. So definitely, definitely great for us.

That's amazing. You know, I've traveled a bit to Ireland and other places in the world, and once people hear that I'm from the Arctic, the interest is just amazing. It fascinates people. So that's great that, you know, as soon as that article went out, people start to respond and I'm sure you'll get some of those people, you know, heading up your way, which is fantastic.

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's the plan. We need them to come up.

Yeah, a couple things I'd be Remiss to not mention is that you also sit on the Indigenous Tourism association of Canada Northwest Territories tours and boards, which just shows your keen support and interest of the indigenous groups working on tourism in the North. And you're also one of Canada Top 40 under 40 in tourism with Travel Canada. So congratulations on that as well.

Yeah, thank you. It's, yes, pretty, pretty interesting to get those types of recognition. I'm quite proud of that, I guess you could say, and mostly flattered. I'm just, you know, we have this tiny little tour company in the north and we work really hard and we seem to get recognized for what we're doing. So it's. It's quite nice. I have a really amazing team and very supportive friends and family that make it all possible.

That's fantastic. And you have a bit of a unique background that I just want to touch on as we go into the program. You didn't. You have northern heritage, but you actually grew up in the South. What is your. Maybe just for folks, could you touch on your heritage, your cultural background?

My grandfather is in Ivaluit. My grandfather or my grandmother is a Gwich' in, and my father is from Ontario, and the background is like Irish, British, Scandinavian, a bunch of different things. And my parents met in Inuvik, and that's where I was. That's where I was conceived. So I, I grew up actually in Ontario, a little small town called Honey harbor, which is a really interesting place to grow up because you're, you know, you're. You're two hours from Toronto and. But you're also. I could walk out my backyard and I had a dog team and a little trap line. And so I got to grow up with kind of like a northern atmosphere of being able to get out on the land and experience some stuff. But I wasn't connected to the culture. So it's. But it, But I think it helps me when I have that background to do what I do, because I grew up kind of down south with, I guess you could say white privilege. And then I came north, and there's a lot of opportunity here and a lot of work to be done, and I'm able to kind of hopefully help out and continue on our journey to build what we're trying to build.

Was it your mom that kind of got you interested in those, what I consider more northern activities when you're growing up in the South?

No, I didn't have any contact with my family up north at all. I don't know if that was on purpose thing or I'm not sure. The way I look at it, as I was just a kid having fun, and I had a stepmom who was great, and my dad was there, and I had brothers and sisters and family and grandparents. And when you're a kid, if you're having fun and you're out playing basketball or whatever, it didn't really dawn on me. I didn't realize something was missing until I came back home to Inuvik. And then I kind of realized, like, oh, okay, this is. This is a big part of me that was missing and creating some conflict in my life. And so, yeah, that journey has been.

Very interesting, I bet. Could you maybe, just for our listeners, elaborate on Gwich'?

In?

Inuvialuit people may not be familiar with those. With those terms.

Yeah, Anuvialuit is Inuit, so coastal people here, the Mackenzie Valley, living out at the Arctic Ocean. There's about six communities here, and Inuvik is one of them. And it's the main. The main hub is Inuvik. That's where the big hospital is and most of the infrastructure. And we lived from, you know, Herschel island basically all the way to Politic and then up to Sachs harbor. And the Gwich' in were south from. From that range to the Old Crow, Yukon, Dawson City. There's Gwichin there and self. So it's. The Inuit is inuvaluate and like Dene first nations is the Gwich'. In. And yeah, so it was interesting because my grandparents were one of the first kind of intermarriages between those two people. And my grandfather, or actually my Uncle Jerry was telling me that the both families were pretty upset that they were getting married and they didn't come, they didn't go to the wedding because it was kind of taboo and stuff. So they broke down a lot of barriers for mixed marriages. And then their daughter Donna was in another mixed relationship with my father. And then. And that's why I'm here. So I have a pretty, pretty unique background that I'm very thankful for. I think it's really helped me, I guess, to be successful in a sense, to have those different backgrounds to rely on. The Inuvalate background is the one I mostly can relate to. And I put a lot of effort into learning about that with, you know, we build the whole igloo village and going to the whale camp and all of the cultural aspects of it. But I'm starting to learn more and more about my Gwich' in heritage as well.

That's a really unique background. I know when I was young, you know, my first years in Fort McPherson, then Inuvik. You're absolutely right. You know, Gwich' in Inuvialouet. You didn't see those. Those marriages. So, I mean, you're. You're the mixture of a really rich culture, you know. Rich cultures, yeah.

And sort of like bringing, you know, bringing people together. Like, I always thought, you know, love is the most powerful thing in the universe, and it's the easiest way to break down barriers. So you have some people that maybe don't get along as well as they could, and, you know, they get married, they start having grandkids. Next thing you know, everybody's, you know, getting along. It's hard to say no to cute grandkids and. You bet. Yeah. So I think it's, you know, we're. We're becoming. As the world gets more globalized, we're becoming more and more mixed people. And, you know, but at the same time, I really think, even though I'm a very, very mixed person, I still feel like it's important to understand one's culture and practice it and be immersed into it and find out its values and its history. And I think that's really important, regardless of what your background is, just to feel connected to who you are and your ancestors. And I think it helps you move forward in a more respectful, sustainable way. So for me to come back not being part of those two cultures and really knowing zero about them, to come back and learn about that from my grandfather and my family and Jerry and my. My adopted mother, Clara, who's been amazing to teach me all these things, has been so important, and I make sure to implement that with my kids, to make sure that they're around when we're building igloos and hunting and fishing and all those things so that my kids grow up around that culture and not having to go back to it because I know how important it is and the problems it can create when one is disconnected from their environment and more importantly, their culture and people.

So it's that cultural knowing, that cultural background, you feel has really given you more of your identity.

Yeah, it's also given me roots. Yes. You know, something to fall back on. And it's kind of given me sort of a guideline of, you know, who I want to be and where I want to go. And the morals that the Ini Vawa had when it came to the hunting and fishing and community and justice and all of that has been really important to me because it's something that's kind of lacking a lot in today's society. There's a massive disconnect from one's environment, and we are making decisions that are affecting our environment and therefore affecting us. And if more people were, you know, drinking the water from the streams and hunting the animals on the land and growing their food, they'd be a lot less likely to, you know, make these decisions that negatively affect themselves and everybody else. But those effects are often felt, you know, not where you are or generations down the line, but in the. In the long run, it does affect us. So for me, to be able to find that was really, really important. And also, to be honest with you, the Inuvao culture is just. It's so fascinating. It's a really amazing and fun thing to be a part of. I feel like when I got started getting rooted into my culture, I felt like I was, like, opening up the most amazing book that never ends. Because every time I learn something new, it leads me to something else, into some other history. And so it's like this life. I now have this life journey and information and history and culture that I can dive into and study for the rest of my life and be a part of. And that's like. It's given me some, like, a sense of purpose, I guess you could say. Yes, Which I believe is really important, because, you know, your days get tough. Your days get tough, and life can get tough. And if you have a. If you have something like that to rely on and to go back to. And it's also given me a real sense of confidence, being able to develop my skills on the land. And if anything, you know, if everything kind of goes sideways and I lose my business or something happens, I know that I could go and live in the bush and I could survive out there and raise my kids, and that's a very unlikely scenario. But it does give me peace of mind. And there's a part of me that wants to do that, too. Just, you know, take off and. Yeah, sounds really nice. On the real busy, hard days.

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I see that with so many people. People have lost their connection to their cultural background, to their heritage. To hear someone like yourself talk about how important that's been for you, that's, you know, just great to hear. There's more of that, I think needs to happen, because there was that period that people went through in the north where they were almost made to feel ashamed of their cultural background, their language, and those things. So to see someone like yourself bringing that back, I think is just, you know, so important.

Yeah. And I wouldn't sugarcoat it either. To say that they were made, like possibly made to. They, they were forced to. It was.

Yeah.

You know, the system was in place to purposely make them feel ashamed of who they are.

Yes.

Not speak their language, not practice their traditions and essentially, you know, take the native out of the native and you know that there's still those repercussions and you know, residual effects of that that you feel every day in your communities that you are at where you could see, especially when you're doing tourism, you know, sharing one's culture, you need to have, you need to have pride in that culture. You need to understand it, you need to have the information and you need to be proud of it in order to share it. So it can be tough to get there. And I see that struggle pretty much every day here of people that just, they don't know who they are. And I really feel like if you want to become, you know, like a big beautiful tree, you know, if you wanted, you need roots. Right. And I think that the emphasis should be on culture, you know, family, food, security, safety and public and mental health. And once those things are addressed and people are feeling connected to their culture, then I feel like you're going to see a lot more people reach out for success and build positive things in their communities. But when the vast majority of your people are living in poverty and their day to day struggle is very different than yours, it's really unlikely for them to be able to do that. They're very much so at a huge disadvantage when it comes to economic opportunity and education and quality of life. So I really hope that what we're doing helps with that and it keeps you motivated. Like I said to our staff before I was talking and I said, you know, the heart projects are what gets you up in the morning. You know, it's what really motivates you. And then the business side of things is what keeps you up at night worrying like, ah, man, I got these bills. You know, like things are. Business is very tough, but also just living in, living in the north is very tough. And so without that kind of, without that sort of passion to go with, with your business venture, it's really unlikely that it's going to succeed because a normal, rational human being or entrepreneur would probably back out and quit because it's just too hard. It's really difficult.

There's so many important points you touch on. I mean, food, security alone, those type of issues that the people are faced with. Up north right now in so many different communities, you know, there's all these different things to tackle. If people like yourself can lead the way, that's just an amazing step forward and one thing just taking one little step backward. So how old were you when you decided you wanted to go back north?

Well, I didn't decide anything, actually. I was actually just kind of content down south playing basketball and running my dog team, and I was just living my life. And then, you know, I was having issues at school with my dad as well. But my. My father came to me about two weeks before Christmas and asked if I would be interested to go up north to meet my biological mother. I have a brother and sister here, my aunts, uncles, you know, all of, like, yes, half the town, basically. And I was at the point in my life where I was, like, pretty confident. I was like, yeah, you know, why not? Everyone was thought I would be really scared. And for some reason, I just thought, what? What the hell, let's go. I grew up on the stories of the north from my father, you know, and reading about the books and the dog sledding and all of that, and I was super excited, you know, I was like, oh, I'm gonna get to go hunting and go up to the Arctic, so. So I got that for a Christmas present, which was a plane ticket, and I came up and I just fell in love with the place. How old were you? I was 16. Okay. First time I was ever on a plane. And I flew up here on my own and got off to the airport and looked around to see if anyone looked familiar. Some lady walked up to me crying, and I thought, hey, that must be my mom. And it was so. It was a pretty surreal experience. And I got to come up to the north and experience it for two weeks. And then I was home again, back in Ontario. I call Ontario home, and I call New Vic home. It gets confusing, but they're both. And, yeah, I was back home, and things were different. You know, when you've experienced the north, when you go back home, you've definitely changed, regardless of what you did when you were here. And my dad asked if I wanted to move, if I wanted to move up north to finish the school, finish my schooling up there and live with my mom. And I said I'd think about it. So I took a day, I went to school, I looked around. I didn't really have much friends. I didn't really have much going on. So I went home and I said, yeah, that sounds like a pretty good plan. And he said, good, because I already booked your tickets. I don't know. He passed away before I could ask him, but I'm not sure if it was a. He just knew me so well that I would say yes, or if it was like, get out of my house type thing. But it. But in hindsight, you know, it was one of them. Well, it was the most positive thing that ever happened to me to move north because I was able to get rerouted in my culture and do what I do today, which I really do, I'm passionate about, and I. I love it. And if I had stayed in Ontario, I don't think I would be who I am today. And I like who I am, and there's not a lot of opportunities there, and I wouldn't have been able to get immersed in my culture. So I'm very, very pleased for that experience. But it is kind of funny. Felt like I was shipped away, like, boarding school or something.

In those two weeks that you were up in Inuvik, what was it that you experienced that made you want to go back? When your dad gave you that choice, what was it you experienced up in Newik in those two weeks that you said, yep, that. That I want to go back?

Well, I mean, it was such a cool experience because, you know, I get off the plane and I'm meeting brothers and sisters, you know, like my mother, which is. Which is a powerful experience, even though, you know, you might not necessarily think it will be until it happens. I think the biggest thing was is that my. My Uncle Jerry, who's just an amazing human being, just took me under his wing and made sure that I experienced the place. So took me out to the cabin, basically gave me a snowmobile to bomb around and get stuck and, you know, go through the ice and whatever. And my cousin. My little cousin Drew was really, you know, he was only about 10, I think, and he was just bombing around on his snowmobile, and I was just tagging along and. And we got to go to all the community feasts and dance in Clavic and Tuktoyaktuk. So I got to experience the culture and the drumming and the dancing and the food, and it just kind of. You know, I think anyone who's gone home, even though they don't know where home is, has that sort of experience of. It's just. It's something that is part of you that's been missing for a really long time. It was just a real powerful experience, and I felt a real connection to the north and its cultures, and it was just. I also think that it was just this amazing sense of adventure. Like, everything was possible. Like, I could jump on a snowmobile and go anywhere, and it was just so harsh. Like, it was so cold. And it was just so. It was kind of like, almost like dangerous and exciting and. Yeah, it just. It just really like something that I've always been kind of a, you know, a sense of adventure. You know, I was always that kid that was disappeared my kayak and, you know, disappear with my dogs and go on these grand adventures. But in Ontario, those adventures are quite, quite small. You know, like, you can only go so far before you hit a power line or a cottage or whatever. And then here it's like, man, it's just amazing. Like, it. It's really hard. Once you've had that sense of adventure, you kind of get hooked on it. It's like a drug. And so, yeah, when I came back, you know, I, you know, I've gone to school and I've left here and there for other reasons, but for the most part, I've been here for almost 20 years now.

So when you went back to Inuvik and you started to have those experiences you're talking about, you went back up there to go to school, you've met your family. Who was it or what was it that got you out on the land and starting to experience those things that you. You had dog teams when you were young and so on. But as you say, it's a different story when you get up there inside the Arctic Circle and in that area of the Mackenzie Delta. What were those experiences? First experiences? And who was with you when you started to go, you know what? I just love this. This is something I want to kind of base my life around.

Yeah, it was definitely my Uncle Jerry and my grandfather that took me out right away when I first got here. And I, you know, I got to go snowmobiling to Husky Lakes and go fishing for lake. Lake trout and hunting geese and ducks. And, you know, one of my first experiences of really feeling like just it was really such a cool place to live was we were at Husky Lakes and there was a seal. Like, we could see a seal. And I said, oh, my God, that's a. That's a seal. Like, could we hunt that? And my Uncle Jerry was just like, oh, go ahead, like, if you. If you. If you want to. So I took off with this little.22. Like, I didn't know anything and I didn't end up getting it and ended up going in its hole. But that was just such an amazing experience because for an Inuit kid growing up in the south, you know, you watch on, you know, the Nature of Things or whatever, these TV shows, and you see Inuit people hunting seals and stuff, and it was just like, holy cow, I'm doing this right now. You know, and it was just a real cool experience. But that was, you know, my family was really good about that, particularly Jerry, because he provided, like, if you don't have a snowmobile, you're not going anywhere. And, you know, my dad had given me a pair of snowshoes when I left, and I snowshoed everywhere, like, within five miles of Inuvik. I tracked it right out. I had a little strap line and, you know, I was out just exploring as much as I could. And then that very first summer, I got a job with the Fisheries Joint Management Committee, which is kind of like a division of. It's a partnership with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, and they had a summer student program. And I heard later that they had asked almost every other student to be part of it, and they all said no. And I was kind of at the last of the list. And I said yes right away because it was an amazing opportunity to go out and spend some time with scientists. And the pay was amazing. You know, you come from Ontario. You make six bucks an hour, so if someone offers you 12 bucks, you're pretty happy. And so I took the job right away, and that job allowed me to get out. And I was tagging, tagging lake trout. I was tagging beluga whales. I was flying around on a little plane and tagging ducks. And I got to go out to the whale camp for the very first time and experience whale camp culture. And I got to hunt a beluga whale. And so that. That job was. That job was really the thing that kicked off my tour company and kind of my lifelong passion, because it's just, you know, I could feel the profound transformational experience I had by being connected to my culture. And. But I could also tell that there was really no way for most people to experience that, regardless of what. Like, even for any vowel people, for them to get out to the whale camp is pretty tough. It's really, really expensive, and you need a boat and resources. You need to take time off. And it's not really available to most people, also to outsiders who could vastly benefit from experience that culture, but also create an understanding between indigenous and non indigenous people. Like, this is how we live, and we need to live this way. And it's part of who we are. And it's not just, you know, a gruesome act of killing a seal or a whale or whatever. And so that idea started to germinate at that time when I was about 16, start my tour company. And.

Because I remember when I. Yeah, sorry, that. So that was the turning point for you when you had that job. There was at some stage experiencing those things where you. And. Hey, you know what? Yeah, what? I want to. Kind of a combination of things, as I understand it, as you're saying, kind of a combination. Being able to live that traditional lifestyle and also to teach people.

Yeah. And I remember specifically, like, one individual, you know, event that happened that I experienced, that that was. That was like, okay, I kind of had an epiphany. And we were coming back from catching tagging bluega whales. So basically, you're in a Zodiac with a dry suit and the whales right there, and you basically haul it beside the boat and you. You bring it to shore and you put the. You put the tag in. And we happened to catch a beluga whale that had a calf with it. So the calf had followed us in, and it was my job to keep the calf calm. So bring it to its mom and just pet it and keep it calm while it sat there beside its mom. And you could hear them talking. And as soon as they got close, they got calm. And that was like. I mean, one of the most amazing experiences in my life. And so we let them out, and I swam out with them with the dry suit on, and they. They swam off, and they took off into the. Into the midnight sun. And then on the Zodiac ride home that day, it was like 30 degrees, and, you know, the salty water's hitting you in the face, and. And I just remember thinking, like, this is the best day of my life. Like, this was the coolest thing I've ever done in my life. And I thought to myself, how do I keep this going? Right? Like, how could I. How could I experience this as much as possible? And then all. And then after a little while thinking, like, of myself, how can I experience this as much as possible? I started feeling like, well, how can I share this? Right? Because there was a lot of, you know, in Uvalo, kids that I went to school with that weren't getting this experience, and I felt like that was just kind of heartbreaking. You know, you take these kids. I would take people out hunting caribou with me that had never gone caribou hunting and never gone duck hunting, and they've lived here their whole life. And I. I thought that was really sad in a way, because it's part of who they are. And when you see them out in their element, you know, they're totally different people. They may be the kids in the streets, you know, walking around, making trouble, but when they're out on the land, you know, they're so excited to be out there, and it's such a powerful experience for them, but they don't have. They don't have access to it. My grandfather said this really brilliant thing, and he said, the kids have. They have the land on their mind, but they don't know how to get there. And so that was kind of a powerful thing that I heard him say. So I wanted to try to create something that would be able to, you know, bridge that gap a little bit, because I feel like it's important if it was important to me.

This is the conclusion of part one of our interview with Kylek Kasoon. Please join us on the next episode of Arctic the Culture Cure for the conclusion. For more information about my novels or to book me for a presentation, please Visit my website, www.robertfagan.com.