Indigenous Activism Through the Performing Arts - Ashley Callingbull, Breaking Barriers

Welcome to Arctic the Culture Cure, the podcast all about Canada's Arctic, the climate, the animals, the land, the people, the culture and what it can teach the rest of the world. I'm your host, Rob Fagan. Ashley Collingwell is a model, actress, public speaker and activist. Ashley was the first Canadian and first Indigenous woman to win the Mrs. Universe title in 2015, has numerous acting credits, including the role of Sheila Delarond in the series Blackstone, and was recently selected to be the new face of the Nike N7 line of footwear, which features designs founded on an indigenous theme. Ashley was born in the Enoch Cree nation in Alberta to Cree parents. By the age of 10, she had consistently won local princess crowns and soon after graduating from high school, she began her university studies to pursue her Bachelor of Arts degree, focusing on drama, acting and television. Ashley was chosen as Miss Canada for the Miss Friendship International pageant held in Hubei, China in 2010, and represented Canada at the Queen of the World final in Germany in 2010. She also represented Canada at Miss Humanity International Barbados in 2011 before becoming Mrs. Universe in 2015. Ashley's childhood was not as perfect as one might think for someone with so many achievements. Ashley was raised mainly by her mother and grandparents. She's quick to point out, however, that the hardship she went through in her younger years helped make her appreciate everything in life. Most importantly, made her the strong woman she is today. She also credits turning to her first nations culture for helping her heal herself. Ashley has used her success and public profile to become a strong voice against domestic violence and a proponent for Indigenous rights. We are very privileged to have Ashley on our program today. Welcome Ashley.

Thank you for having me. Excited?

Yeah, no, it's great to be able to connect. And how have you been making out in this strange world that we have right now?

It was honestly such a confusing time for me because when this all kind of came about in March, I was living in Florida, so the Canadian government told me to come home because my health insurance would not be covered for Covid because they don't know how to cure it. So they said, you better get home, get across the border quick. So drove all the way back from Florida to Alberta and it was like scary because had to go into mandatory quarantine for 14 days and you know, just a really unsure time. And all my events gigs were canceled or they were moved just on hold. So I felt like I had to basically mentally prepare myself for something like this because mental health was really affecting everyone at this time. Just so uncertain and, you know, taking Jobs, away from people, businesses, going out. So for me, I honestly pushed myself so hard to start working on my physical. And then my mental felt stronger. So I started working out like crazy in the basement, wherever, you know, because they couldn't go out anywhere. So I started to feel really good, healthy, stronger, eating well. And I thought, you know, if I'm going to work on something, you know, why not just work on myself? And then things started to kind of slowly progress and I had a lot of virtual events and conferences and motivational speeches and stuff like that. Yeah. So my life kind of came back, but it was weird that I couldn't have that, I guess, in person connection. So it was just all virtual. So that's completely different for me. And yeah, I just, it was just completely unexpected. Completely like shifted my world. Well, everyone. So I'm just glad I made the most of it. And it feels like it's been forever, but I can't wait for it to be safe, to be out again and, you know, everyone is healthy again.

Oh, yeah. Well, great, great lessons, I think for everybody. Just the way, you know, you, you were determined to look after yourself.

Yeah.

And keep yourself mentally and physically healthy. And that was one of the questions I had for you is, you know, you're in the entertainment industry. You're, you're speaking, you're acting, you're, you know, in pageants and so on. How has that, like, how has that been able to continue? I mean, virtual likely, but I mean as far as acting and things like that.

Yeah. So acting is so weird now. It's like I miss going to in person auditions because you get to meet the casting directors and the producers and whatnot. Now everything is self tape, self tape or they do a zoom call with you after. So it's like you put all your work in that one tape and send it off and, you know, hope for the best. Fingers crossed. You don't get that in person connection anymore, but you might get it virtually if they want to zoom with you or whatnot. And then, you know, all my other work, speeching engagements or my speaking engagements are all virtual. So that's different. You know, being able to actually work with kids in classrooms though, through zoom, that's actually fun because they get excited. Right. Like you can't have any visitors in person, but, you know, still being able to like do what I do is it's a good feeling. I feel like I'm not lost because, you know, at the beginning of all this, I felt lost and I thought, what am I gonna do just sit on the couch, sit at home eating cheesies all day. And I thought, like, I gotta be productive. That's just the type of person I am. I'll get, like, antsy. I feel like I always need to be doing something because my normal life would be. I would maybe catch seven flights a week, like, be in a different city almost every day. That was like, my life. And then having to go from that to not being able to go anywhere and just, you know, my highlight was going to the grocery store but hoping I was safe at the same time. Scared, paranoid, you know, so that's what my life has gone to. And it's just crazy. I just had to make sure that I was always, you know, keeping busy and being productive and still doing my work and, you know, still working on, you know, my dreams and chasing them.

My laptops, the N7, the Nike N7 commercial. So was that pre Covid or was.

That during COVID No, it was actually supposed to be. Well, this whole Covid thing wasn't supposed to happen, but they had it planned pre Covid. But then what had to happen was that was the first time I've ever done a photo shoot in my home through zoom. It was the weirdest thing, but the coolest thing. So they sent all the clothes, and my sister, thank goodness, is a hairstylist and makeup artist and she's quarantining with me, so she was able to, like, get me all glammed up. They set the whole backdrop, everything, sent everything to me, and we did it through zoom where the photographer was on the other end and like a whole team of 12 people telling me, you know, what they were looking for, what they want to embody. And it was so different, but the images came out amazing.

Oh, fantastic.

Yeah.

Things you don't think of pre Covid and then, like, you think they're impossible. I guess if we have to think of positive things that will come out of COVID you know, these things we've learned and we can use in our work and our lives and so on.

It really showed how people can adapt to unexpected situations, you know, and it's crazy what technology can actually do for us and how it still has brought us together during these hard times. So, you know, I'm thankful for that.

Yeah. Yeah. Now you're Cree and you're from Alberta's Cree. Enoch. Cree nation. Were you born there?

I was born in Edmonton, just outside Enoch, but grew up here the majority of my life, yes.

Okay. And where do you live now, Ashley? In Edmonton.

I, I, yeah, I'm actually quarantining in Edmonton. Supposed to go back to Florida, but, you know, things are, I'm questioning what's going to happen. Supposed to leave on the 25th, so we'll see. And I'm also waiting on like all these other acting engagements where I might actually have to fly to la. So my schedule is really up in the air and unpredictable, but I'm ready for anything. And I will, you know, be safe and take as many tests as I need to just, you know, pursue these dreams. Right. But yeah, so I'm currently in Edmonton just so I can be near my family.

Okay.

Okay.

I've read that by the time you were 10, you were already pretty accomplished in pageants and, you know, you had some titles already under your belt. So you started very young. Was your first pageant something you asked to do or was it something that your mom or someone in your family or friend initially put in your mind to take that first step?

I actually wanted to do it. The first pageants I ever did were not typical pageants. They were at my reserves powwow. So it was a. Basically princess of your community, princess of the Enoch Cree Nation. So I went for tiny top princess junior and senior. And what you do there is like, you have like a speech in your language and in English and you perform your traditional dance and, you know, help with the community. So I just wanted to be like a voice for the community and I just wanted, you know, to feel proud and, you know, when you're in Grand Entry and everyone, I don't know, it just feels really good and, you know, to have my family there and I love to dance. So I just, I felt good, you know, like I was doing something that I love to do. And then somehow later on in life that transitioned into like trying a actual beauty pageant, which was completely different from what I've ever done. Like, I did not know what I was in for because all I knew about beauty pageants was Miss Congeniality. And that's not really that much to go off other than world peace, this and that. But, you know, I never thought I would do a pageant like that in my life. My friend actually encouraged me to do them. So when I was in university, I think actually when I was 14, it started after my sister passed away. She was cared for at the Stollery Children's Hospital. And I wanted to be like my grandparents. You know, my grandparents, they live their lives like for other people, you know, being a medicine man and medicine woman. So I wanted to Be like them. But I just. I didn't know how. I knew I wasn't going to be a medicine woman, but I wanted to find my own way to give back and help people, because my grandmother said that was just so important. So when my sister passed, I felt like I needed to heal and make the most of it. And I saw so many families there that were suffering through the same thing she was. So I ended up volunteering there and becoming, like, the youth representative for there and raising money for the Stallery. And then after that, all these different organizations that have, like, personally affected me in my life. Like, my mom had cancer. So I started volunteering for the cancer association. And then I started volunteering for all these different indigenous organizations that have women who are dealing with, like, domestic violence and, you know, homelessness. And I just. I felt good being able to, like, work with these people who have gone through similar things I have and, you know, raise money for them and doing, you know, going above and beyond. Because the only way we can, like, thrive together is we're working together, helping each other. And it made my heart feel good. You know, my grandma always said, if something feels right, like, your heart will smile. And it felt like I was healing in my own way by helping others heal. So everyone knew me as this charity girl, the girl that was always just, like, raising money or at the arena or selling tickets. Like, I did anything that I could to raise money going to different organizations, corporations, like, getting things for them to donate to raffle. Like, I was having garage sales and my own things. Like, I was just really hardcore about it. And my friend said, you know, why don't you use that in the pageant system? Like, do things differently than other people? Because when you compete in pageants, like, you win money, you win prizes, whatever, and you're basically like a role model. You have this title and this platform. You know, it's just like this big, huge thing. Like, you could do so much with it. And girls at the time, you know, they go, they win, they celebrate and go home with their families, and that's it. You know, I thought, there's never been a native woman. There's no one out there doing it for something that's, you know, bigger than themselves. And the whole point of, like, having, like, a representative is someone that you, you know, can look up to, that inspires you to do more things for other people. So when I joined, I had no idea what I was getting into, but I wanted. I thought if I did well enough, raised money, enough money for my charities and if I placed or won, like, the funds would go back to my charities. So it was something that was more worthwhile. I was there, more so for them than just to win this title. I was just trying to make an impact and be a voice. And, you know, I joined this pageant, and I was only indigenous women competing that year. And my first experience was some racist things said to me. Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, I want to. I want to touch on that, because I think, you know, that shocked me. I watched a video of you giving a presentation to a group of people on the Internet, and I have to say, that shocked me when I heard that. And I think it's important that people hear what you went through. So that was in 2010, and it was in Toronto.

Yeah. I felt really proud of myself because when I went, I had all indigenous designers helping me and dress me. Everything that I was wearing or how I represented myself was showing that I was, like, a proud, strong indigenous woman. Like, you could see it. And that I wasn't going to change for nobody. And because I was the only indigenous woman the media at the time, and this was just, like, 10 years ago, they said this terrible thing. They joked about me. A girl who is from Rwanda and a Syrian were the only girls who were all, like, not Caucasian. They commented on us. And my joke that they made about me was, you know, there's a native woman competing this year. I wonder what she's gonna do for her talent. She gonna sign welfare checks with her chos or Chug Lysol? And I just couldn't believe that someone in the media said that. And right away, so many other media outlets reached out to me, and they tried to get an angry response out of me. That was the first thing they tried to did. They were trying to get, like, this angry Indian vibe out to everyone to let them know that I was upset. And that wasn't my answer. I said, you know, I feel sorry for them that they're so uneducated and so ignorant, and they have no idea who I am or what I'm made of. And I'm like, they want to know. Come educate yourself and come to the show on Saturday, and I'll show you what I'm all about. And, you know, and that night, like, I was. I was the first native woman to ever be crowned Miss Canada and then sent off to how many different international pageants? That was just, like, it broke so many barriers that day.

Oh, amazing. It's fantastic you had the maturity to respond in that fashion. I mean, that is Something you should look back and be proud of.

Yeah. I mean, you know, anger, I feel like it doesn't solve anything. And they won't want to listen to you if you're giving them hell. And, you know, you. You can't argue with stupid. So, you know, like, I'm just like, all you can do is educate yourself, you know? You know, stop being so ignorant. And it's crazy that, like, we're still living in times like that where racism is just so prevalent. And I deal with it a lot still. Like, people saying things to me or saying that I don't belong in the careers that I'm doing or chasing the things I'm doing because I'm indigenous. And, you know, whenever I travel the world or go to these different pageants or different events, like, I always share, like, how proud I am to be who I am, because I've been through a lot to get to this point. Like, even my parents, like, my ancestors, just to. Just to be here, you know, it's just so. It's just a strong statement.

So that. I mean. So you experienced that in Toronto in 2010?

Yeah.

And how much overt racism have you experienced it? What I would say at home, in Alberta, I mean, to the same level, to a lesser level, to a greater level, or is it everywhere? Maybe that's an unfair question, but.

I would say racism is everywhere in Canada, but I experience it a lot in my own province, unfortunately. I feel like Alberta sometimes is the America of Canada. The way that a lot of indigenous people here are treated, the things that people will outright say to your face, it's unbelievable. And even, like, what's going on in Nova Scotia right now, that racism, like, showing to indigenous people how they're treating them, physically harming them, and it's not being stopped. It just goes to show that, you know, racism is alive and well. Doesn't matter where you are. Like, it's here. It's the people that are the problem.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, it's in what you teach your kids.

How does that get better, Ashley? Like, what do you see? Where do we have to go? How do we combat that?

How do you have to unlearn everything you were taught? Basically, you know, it's unlearn the bad behavior and then hopefully teach your kids, you know, what's right and what's wrong. And, you know, we live in a world now where people are gonna stand up for themselves if what someone says isn't right or says something that's just, like, so politically wrong. Like, politically Incorrect. And, you know, I'm glad people are teaching their kids now and that we're able to have more people who are, you know, from different backgrounds to look up to. That's just so important that it's just our lives are of value and that's what people need to know, like people who are like me from, you know, people that are black, like, all from different backgrounds. Our lives are of value. And I feel like we're devalued in Canada, just sad to say. And we're still just fighting so hard just to show, you know, that we're not going anywhere.

Now, one of the things that's been, I don't know how much you've heard about the education system in Alberta and some of the things have been discussed lately, you know, regarding what will be included and what won't be.

The residential school thing.

Yeah. And there's some great literature out there around, you know, 21 things you may not be aware of, you know, to do with the Indian act and all these other things that could be taught. Is that part of the answer is to get the political system to agree that there has to be more of that in schools.

Yes. The truth needs to be told. It needs to be learned. People need to know the true history of Canada. And I know some people are thinking that it's harsh for children to learn something at such a young age, but it was already harsh enough to be taken away at that age and forced out of your home. You know, they need to be able to understand, you know, what our country stemmed from. And I mean, when I was six years old, that's when I started experiencing abuse. You know, I think that it's okay for them to read that they were taken, you know, from their homes, like this has happened. This is our country. It's important to share the truth because however are you going to learn? I mean, don't be afraid of it now, you know, it already happened.

Yeah. And I think part of the problem, and I'd be interested to see if this is your take on it as well. I think part of the problem is as soon as non indigenous people are confronted with some of what's happened in the past, they get offended, they get defensive, and they take it as a personal insult instead of as a way of learning. Is that part of the answer too, is how we communicate between the different cultures and say, hey, this is for your education, not to shame you. You just need to understand where I'm coming from and how we can make things better.

Definitely. We need Better communication. I feel like people that are non indigenous, I don't want them to feel like we're against them. I feel like they need to be our allies. You know, we're all together now, non indigenous allies. It's such a powerful thing to be able to speak up for us. Not just, you know, say something and that's it, but show up, understand where this country came from, where you're living, understand your people better, you know, so education is just so important and having that great communication to be able to understand that's the only way you can have reconciliation is like, you need the truth. Truth needs to be out there.

Yeah. It's part of the healing process.

Yeah.

No, for sure. Now you, you talked about the motivation you gained from things that happened to you and, you know, increasing that desire to succeed as you move forward. And you went to University of Alberta and you took your, your arts degree in acting, television and so on. Was that already part of the motivation when you, when you decided to follow a career, like, not just, you know, there's pageants, there's television, there's public speaking, and you've kind of pulled all those together. Was that a big part of your motivation before you even went to the University of Alberta to say, hey, I want to use this platform well, so.

When I was younger, I felt like the only way that I could pull myself out of my life is chase the things that I love. And I loved quite a few things. You know, my charity, my charity work. I loved acting, you know, speaking. There was just. Those are the things I wanted to chase. So if I could, like, put that into my education and yes, you know, that's what I've always wanted. But I had no idea that I would become a public figure. That was nothing that I was, you know, planning to do. It kind of just happened, you know, I was already doing work with kids and, you know, doing all this stuff. I guess behind the scenes. I was not. I was, you know, nobody to anyone. No one knew who I was. So. And it wasn't until I started doing all these things, you know, being in front of the camera, people started to notice what I was doing. And then I was able to actually amplify the work that I was, you know, accomplishing and able to help more people. It helped me, you know, it helped me help more people.

Yes.

So it's crazy how like, you know, being a young girl, I never would have thought, not at all.

And I think that's important for other young girls, young women to hear from, you Is, you know, that you never, you know, thought of that when you were young. And one area that. And they see you so accomplished now. And I think some young women would go, oh, I'll never be able to do that. And they don't understand what you've been through through the years. And you touched on a little bit, you know, at a younger age, you went through abuse. And I think I've read that your mom as well, went through that abuse. And would you. Could you touch on that? I mean, some of what happened, you know, the abuse you went through when you were younger and how you pulled yourself away from that.

Yeah. So me and my mom ended up leaving Enoch, the reserve that I'm from, and we moved to another reserve not too far from here, an hour and a half away. And it was one of those situations where she was dating someone, and it ended up being, you know, a guy that is just so charming to everyone in the community, charming to everyone around him, but underneath all that, he was a monster. And having to, you know, be touched that way, hurt that way. When I was just 5, turning 6, not knowing if that was okay or if that was love, and then being told, like, you know, say anything, I'll kill your mom. You know, that's terrifying because they're bigger than you and they run your life. And then having no money or any money that my mom had, there's just very little of it. I was always embarrassed because we were always picking bottles and going to the bottle depot and, you know, bringing. Bringing them in just to get money for food and then counting how many pierogies I can eat a night. It was hard having nothing and then having to go to school where they were really racist to me. There was just a handful of us indigenous kids at the school. They picked on me for, you know, my skin, what I looked like, how poor I was. And somehow they found out what was happening to me at home, picked on me for that, too. So I felt like I was just falling apart. I didn't want to be alive. I felt like the only reason I wanted to stay alive is because my mom was with me. So thinking like that for almost five years, it destroyed me. Never thought I could accomplish to be anyone or anything because my abuser told me, you know, you're worthless. You'll never amount to anything. When you hear something like that over and over for years, you. You believe it. You know, you're just a kid. Yeah. It's almost like I was brainwashed to believe that this is my life. And the day that we escaped, it just all happened so fast. I didn't know what was happening. My mom just grabbed me, took stuff, and we went back to my grandparents, and things got crazy. And I remember my grandmother saying that, you know, we're not going back. You're not going back. You're safe. And then I don't know why, but I felt like I could open up to her because she was abused at residential school. So I told her everything that happened to me. And then having to tell my mom, it was heartbreaking because my mom, you know, said something to me about, like, how she failed as a mother, and she had no idea. You know, these were just things that I kept to myself, like, I buried inside. And having to heal after that and try to live a normal life, it didn't feel right. Nothing felt normal. And then having to go to court, that was the first time I ever spoke publicly in a public setting. So imagine that. First time I ever spoke publicly was in a courtroom to a bunch of people and his family laughing at me as I explained in detail all the horrific things he did to me. And then now I think about it, I'm a public speaker, and I can speak to, like, 20,000 people in, like, a huge arena. Like, it is insane that I went from this little girl who was, like, too scared to talk. And I always told myself, you know, I'll never speak out. I'll never speak up again. This is, like, the worst experience of my life. But how I had to turn it all around. A lot of people ask because, you know, it's. It's such a common in our country for indigenous people to be going through, like, poverty and abuse.

Yes.

And, you know, a lot of my family, friends, people, they turn to drugs and alcohol because, you know, you want to numb the pain. And me, I just. I kept thinking, like, I don't want to be that stereotype. I don't want to be that worthless person that he said I was going to be. I kept, you know, thinking that my healing isn't in therapy. My healing is somewhere else. And then my grandparents told me, your healing is here. Your strength is here, is in the sweat. This is where you come, you pray. You can cry in here. Singing. Here, they're like, let it all out. Like, my cook' em taught me that in our way of life, staying away from drugs and alcohol is, like, number one. Because once you put those negative things into your body, your spirit moves further and further away from you. And then that's why you get lost. And that's why you make bad decisions. So I felt like, you know, I wanted to do those things to numb this horrible pain, but thank goodness I had that sweat there. Thank goodness I had my culture because it kept me strong, and it made me fight for the life that I really wanted, and it saved me. And then I felt like I had purpose, and I felt like that I could, you know, do so much more with my life. And I felt like I was going on the right path. So it's crazy how my culture saved me.

So it was turning to your culture and turning to those answers within your culture and practices that pulled you out of it, so to speak.

Yeah. And, you know, it wasn't quick. It wasn't easy. It took years to heal. And I feel like I'm still on this healing journey, and that's why I still want to help other people, because when they're healing, I feel like a part of me is healing, too.

Thank you so much for sharing that. I mean, that's. That's so powerful. And, you know, if one young person can hear this and, you know, hear your story and hear you talk so strongly about what you went through and, you know, what helped you, I think that's just the most amazing thing you can do for young people. So thank you. Thank you very much for sharing that. I really appreciate it. Another. We talked about your mom briefly, too, and another amazing part of your story is your mom. Now, I had no idea what has happened to your mom in recent years, and I wonder if you could just share that with the audience on some of what your mom, you know, the success your mom has been achieving, too.

That's crazy. So, you know, my mom, you know, she had it really rough. She beat cancer twice, you know, beat all these things that were thrown at her. And she. After my sister passed, one of the symptoms with what my sister had was my mom would gain a lot of weight and gain a lot of weight in her. In her insides. And it was like a symptom. Her whole body just gained weight, and it was weird. But the baby, she was really small. And after that, you know, after my sister passed, you know, my mom experienced depression from that, you know, because it was. It's heartbreaking, you know, holding on to a life and then having to let it go. My mom kind of felt like, fell apart. It was a hard thing to deal with. And, you know, she felt depressed. She gained weight, and she felt like she couldn't really focus on herself. And I told her, you know, it's time. It's time for you to be happy. You know, these things are things that we can't control. And after my sister passed, I had another sister. And it was such a blessing, you know, to have her in our life. I said, you know, everything happens for a reason, and we go through pain for a reason, but we get stronger from it. So, you know, I started encouraging my mom. And, you know, my mom is actually a super pageant fan. Loves watching pageants. Would come to all my pageants, cheer me on, screaming like a crazy person in the audience, shaking chairs. She's that person. And I even brought her to the Philippines, one of the biggest pageants ever, and she loved it. So my mom. Yeah, so my mom always wanted to do pageants, but she's like, that's just not for me. It's just, you know, it will never be for me. And I said, you know, why not? Why not? Why limit yourself? You know, just do it. I'll help you. I'll, you know, encourage you. I'll train you. Got her ready her gowns. You know, we started working on our fitness together. She started feeling better. Yeah. And she lost over £100, something pounds. It was crazy. And she felt the best she's ever felt. She. She was very healthy. She felt more confident in speaking as well and, you know, being able to do more work for those charities, just like I was doing. And she ended up winning Mrs. North America. It was crazy. Yeah. So it's like no matter what age you are, like, you could. You could make your dreams come true. You can make things happen for yourself. You just have to have that drive and that belief in yourself and love and appreciate yourself.

Well, the thing that I find just really heartwarming about that whole situation is how you basically were role models for each other, you know, through the years. All of a sudden, you were your mom's role model, and you helped your mom to say, hey, you know what? You can achieve this. And it just, it's. It's. I don't know, I'm almost lost for words. It's just very heartwarming.

Full circle.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Just amazing. Such an incredible story. Again, thank you for sharing all of that. Just amazing. And turning back to your experience a little more. And you kind of answered this as well, but you've been pretty outspoken. You know, when the, I think was in 2015, the Conservative government, you know, one of the quotes I've read is, you know, they treated first nations people like terrorists, you know, and some other quotes like that about what's happening in Canada. And, you know, the country is maybe even regressing as far as recognizing the rights of indigenous peoples. And again, you've answered this a bit, and I don't know whether there's anything else to add. But how do we combat that? What do we do? What comes next? You know, what has to come next for progression?

So much change has to be done because there's just so much damage caused. Again, unlearn what we've been taught. I feel like also our government right now, they need to acknowledge that there is systemic racism in our country.

Yes.

You know, our police, our rcmp, need to acknowledge that, you know, acknowledge the truth. Our country needs to know the truth. And it's hard to face, it's hard to see, hard to accept, but it's where you're living. And it's best, you know, for me, you know, moving forward. A lot of us are speaking out. I'm glad that all these voices are uniting, coming together, because we need that and we need to really mobilize and unite everyone. And I'm glad that all the people that are, you know, doing negative things or that are, you know, racist, they're being called out, you know, they need to be told, like, you know, this isn't right. Yeah, we don't live back in the day. Like, come on, this is 2020.

Yeah.

What are you doing? Yeah, it's just sad that, like, people's mental state is just. It's just so behind, you know, and some people are so stuck in their ways, and it's hard trying to. Trying to break that. But for me, you know, I. I personally educate with kindness, you know, I. I can't argue with people because I have tried that before, and it doesn't get anything across. No one will want to listen to you if you're arguing with them. Me, you know, I'm just saying, hey, you know, I have. I know we have different views. I'm like, But I just need to, like, voice, you know, some truth, some honesty, you know, give you a little tidbit, some information. You know, this is what it's like for me. I don't know what it's like for you. I'm like, but this is my life every day.

Yeah, I think you've hit on, you know, part of what you said. There is, again, everyone speaking out and everybody calling each other on saying inappropriate things that are racist. I think that's something that didn't happen before, and I think it's something that's happening. It's happening more now. But Is it happening enough? No. And I think that's one of the important steps that has to happen more with everyone is to speak up when you hear these things. Speak up?

Yeah. I think that our Prime Minister and our RCMP need to acknowledge that there's systemic racism in our country.

Yeah.

That's a, that's a big step. And to actually do something about it, you know, don't sit back and let this happen to your people.

No, no, no. For sure. Now, we talked a little bit about your career earlier and things being weird because of COVID Yeah. So is there anything you could share? I know some things that, you know, someone like yourself is working on you can't necessarily share because maybe people can't know about it yet. Things that are in the works. But is there anything you can share that you're working on right now that maybe we'll see, we'll hear, we'll know more about in the near future?

Yeah. So I'll be having more campaigns that will be coming out and those are in the works. And I actually have some really, I can't even mention it yet, some really interesting travel plans coming up for some really big events where I'm going to be doing big charity donations and whatnot. Can't share it, but acting wise. Sounds like I'm going to be flying into LA soon to be doing my in person callbacks. Getting closer to, you know, getting these jobs that I can't say, but they're big time and like, it is unbelievable. The directors are like very well known. So I'm like, oh man, you know, so I'm just keeping my fingers and toes crossed that, you know, this is my time to shine in that arena. And, you know, it's crazy all the things that I'm doing. I can't even ever really say what I'm doing until it's released by the company. You know, it's. It's weird. But yes, lots of things are coming. My life is gonna get really busy again.

Well, when you can share stuff, get it to me so I can share it with other people too, because, yeah, it's exciting. I was so excited to see when you became part of the N7 Nike N7 campaign. I'm a huge lacrosse fan. Thompson Brothers. I just love those guys and they're such great role models and spokespersons for the indigenous communities. And I followed them as they did the Nike N7. Then I saw you were going to do the Nike N7. I went, oh, man, this is just incredible. This is amazing. Oh, yeah. I just love that stuff.

Yeah, it's so powerful to see Indigenous faces and such a, like, huge campaign, and that's something you never see is, you know, when I was younger, there were so many things I wanted to chase, you know, acting or pageants or whatever, but there was never anyone that looked like me or that was like me doing those things. So, you know, I may be the first for a lot of things, but I won't be the last because I was able to open the door for other people who want to follow or feel like, you know, it's good to break out of your comfort zone and try something. Even if people are saying you don't belong, you belong wherever you want to belong.

Yeah, that's really good. That's one thing again, just, you know, before we close off, I wanted to say, what is the main message you would want to get across to young indigenous people in Canada who, you know, may at times feel that they don't have a strong. A future as you. What would. What. What's your message? What would you say to them?

You know, for me, when I didn't have dreams, and then when I started to, you know, finally love and appreciate myself for the way that I was created, you know, I am this way for a reason. I live through these things for a reason. I realized that I do have the potential inside me to accomplish whatever I want to accomplish. I just have to realize that I can't limit myself. I can't live my life in fear anymore because I've done that too long. I realized that, you know, loving and appreciating myself for who I am and being proud of that and living a fearless life, it makes me feel like I can accomplish anything. I always have this why not? Mentality. Why can't I do this? What's stopping me? Just me, just, you know, my mentality. So now I've, like, completely changed. Like, you know, I want to accomplish something. I'm determined I'm going to do it. Yes, it's going to be hard work, but why not? If it's something I truly love and I'm passionate about, you can make it happen. And I'm like. And there's, you know, and there's always people that are willing to help. You know, don't be afraid to ask for help. Don't be afraid to, you know, reach out. You know, that's something that, you know, I even felt embarrassed about, you know, being, like, a struggling student and whatnot, like, scared to ask for help, scared to ask for, you know, the right direction. It's good to ask. It's good to talk to people, get things off your chest, you know, keep your mental state strong during these times and during whatever is coming. Because if you have a strong mental state, you feel like you can accomplish anything that changes the game.

You bet. And I love that. Why not? That's gonna stick in my mind after. After you finish speaking. Why not? So, Ashley, thank you so much for making time. I mean, you're running between appointments and you have all kinds of things going on. You made time for the podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Yeah, no problem. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Okay, we'll have to stay in touch.

Take care.

Bye Bye. Bye. Bye. Thank you for listening to this episode of Arctic the Culture Cure. For more information about my novels or to inquire about my presentations, please Visit my website, www.robertfagan.com. we'll join you again on the next episode of Arctic Canada, the Culture Cure.