Welcome to Arctic Canada. The culture cure. The podcast all about Canada's Arctic, the climate, the animals, the land, the people, the culture and what it can teach the rest of the world. I'm your host, Rob Fagan. Harry Cassoon was born in the vast Mackenzie Delta of Canada's Arctic. Jerry became a special constable in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. And after graduating from Depot Division in Regina, Saskatchewan in 1975, he was one of the first indigenous regular members of the force. After various postings in Alberta and the Yukon Territory of Canada, Jerry returned home to the Mackenzie Delta with postings in Tuktoyaktuk, Northwest Territories on the coast of the Beaufort Sea and Inuvik, Northwest Territories. After a stellar 25 year career in the force, Jerry retired in Inuvik. After his retirement from the rcmp, Jerry worked in Visitor Services with Parks Canada, passing his love and knowledge of the Mackenzie Delta on to visitors to the region as well as youth engaged nonland programs. Jerry served as Deputy Commissioner of the Northwest Territories from 2011 through 2017 and held the title of Interim Commissioner from May 2016 through June 2017 when the position was vacant. In 2015, Jerry was awarded Canada's Polar Medal which recognized him as a well respected elder who worked tirelessly at strengthening the awareness and understanding of Northern Canada and its peoples. We're privileged to have Jerry on the program today. Welcome Jerry.

Thank you very much, Rob. Good to see you.

Yeah, good to see you. And I'm so glad you could make time to be with us. I see that the, the weather has turned quite nice up in Inuvik in that area. And I was wondering if you had a chance to get out and enjoy the Delta yet.

You know, Rob, a little over a week ago we had plus. Last Sunday actually was last Sunday, I think was we had +7 here in Inuvik and, and people were talking about, you know, the Snow King's got his big castle in Yellowknife.

Yes.

In the nude. Were starting to really melt. Some of them I've been talking to that are out on the land said they're having a really hard time to find the push ups, you know, for the muskrats. They're finding a lot of water in the lakes. And I said, you know, I think we got our spring jamboree coming up in like three weeks away if the weather stays like this. I said, I think we're gonna have to order flippers for the dog. So we're gonna have a dog race. Awful water laying on the lake, water all over the place. Wow. I think whoever has the biggest lugs on their snow machine is gonna win this big hundred mile skidoo race. You don't even need studs today, Rob. I was out there on the river just doing some things, you know, trying to get prepared for our jamboree and so on. And it was, it was like minus three, minus one out there. Beautiful day. The days are really long. Wow, 14 hour days already.

Already. So what, what time is the sun coming up Jerry? And what time is it going down now? I know it turns around so quickly after the sun comes back.

I think the sun is up at. Golly, must be about 7 o' clock in the morning now. 7:30 and it's down at night at about 8:30, just about 9 o'. Clock.

Oh nice.

We got 13, 14 hours of sunshine already. And that's a big difference from at the end of December, first part of January when we had the return of the sun. You know, when that sun peeked over that horizon over there, you know, you make that little face at it and welcome it back and man it's just been boom, boom, boom. Look at it today.

Wow. I mean so you're, you're really. Your temperature right now is no different than Edmonton. That's about what the temperature was today in Edmonton. Maybe zero minus one right around there.

Yeah, it's, it's. I think even last week when I left Edmonton it was like about 7, 8 above get home to New Vic and my wife picked me up at the airport. It was like 9 above in the new Viking. Warmer than Edmonton. And it just, the weather has changed so much in the last, you know, since you were here.

Yeah. Yeah. So are you noticing that every year now, Jerry, like is it consistently warmer than it used to be?

It's been the last couple of years we've been getting a little bit earlier spring than before and this year very noticeable. I mean we don't, we got to be a month ahead of spring. And you know the ice road, some of the ice roads that are in the delta. I think one of the young guys, heavy equipment operator said they're hoping that the ice would thicken up just a little bit more so they could put the grater on there and scrape the ice and make it a lot smoother road, but sound like they're having ice thickness issues.

Wow, that's tough when it happens so quickly. So Jerry, I know, you know, just talking about you getting out on the river today and I know your dad had a traditional camp in the delta. Do you still head out to that camp? Or do you have a different camp.

That you go to yourself or, you know, that camp? Erosion, climate change. Boom. Like that, the camp went over the bank. Oh, wow. Climate change is going on out here.

Yeah. Yeah, I noticed there's a lot of.

Lumber because it was getting too close. And, you know, we did some work and saved a bunch of the lumber and a bunch of other things, but the main foundation itself. One day the bank just disappeared and over it went. And unsafe to sort of fool around with it too much. That one is gone. We still got a few other camps that we can access in the delta. And, you know, it's so nice to get out there and just enjoy this kind of weather at this time of year. One of the best times of the year.

Mm. Oh, yeah. I think for people who've never lived in the north, but maybe who have gone spring skiing or something could maybe relate it to that a bit. I mean, you're out, the snow is still there. You can go by snowmobile all over the place still, and sun's up, Warm, beautiful, beautiful time of year.

You can travel anywhere. Right now, I was just on the river, and there must have been a dozen or close to 20 machines out there down at the gas station, fueling up earlier on this afternoon, all heading out to the delta, all heading out there somewhere in that huge, vast Mackenzie delta that we have just outside the community.

Nice, nice. Now, Jerry, you were born in the delta, and, you know, to give people a little bit of a feel for that. Where exactly were you born, Rob?

I was born 40 miles northwest of a clavic, out on a place. We call it Alagashik. That's my great grandfather's camp. And the time I was born at the end of February, it was like. It was like colder than hell. I don't know why I wanted to see that cold or not yet, but it was pretty darn cold. And. And actually, my father and my uncle were out there getting ready for trapping the muskrats in the first part of March. They were there. They had gone. They'd left the camp a couple of days earlier. And on that February morning at the end of February in 1953, my mother says to my brother Henry, I thought he was my brother, but he wasn't. He just, you know, somebody hanging out at the house and part of the family, I guess. I, you know, helping out with the dogs and the family and so on. And my older brother Denny was there, and he's 20, was 20 months older than I am. He's gone now, but I mean, he was 20 months older than I am. And my mother says to Henry, I'm going to have a baby early in the morning. So Henry said, oh, what are we going to do? And she said, well, I don't know. We got to get to Victor and him somehow. So she knows he's over there somewhere. So 40 miles to a clavic. And Henry says, I'm going to go to a clavic. I want to send a message to CBC to Victory, better get over there. So said she couldn't wait any longer after Henry left. So she put my brother on a snowshoe and she started walking across the creek, across the river, over the lakes and through the portages. And 12 miles later, she come to my dad's where they're building the camp at 500, 500 Lake Creek. They come there and she collapsed by the dogs. In the evening, Uncle Joe says he hears the dogs barking, looks out and says, oh, Victory. Says Bertha's down there beside the dogs. Wow. What's going on? You're ready to have a baby. So my grandfather, my great grandfather's camp is like about eight miles away. So my dad says, better hook up the dogs really quick. We gotta get Bertha to. Had to get Bertha to the camp and can't have a baby out here. So they got the dogs hooked up and my mother, myself, well, my mother, my brother, I guess I must have been in there too. Mackenzie Delta Eskimo football was in there. I'm not in Edmonton Eskimo football. But anyways, away we went. And my uncle Colin was at the cap. He was 17, he said at the time. Time. And he's at the camp, he said. He said across the way, he said, I could hear. I could hear my brother yelling and screaming. A lot of excitement. Something's going on. So he said that right across from Alekashik is a river about the size of Inuvic river right here. And my dad's dog team come over the bank over the portage across river up to the. Up to the house and the other my dad's cousins and that all about his age and my mother's age helped. My mother brought me inside and by the time they took her wind pants off, they said, I think we're not sure whether you were born in that toboggan or actually on that bed. Because when they took your mother's wind pants off, there you were. You're already there. I was already there. Yeah. That Mackenzie mud baby. The house had no in them Days. A lot of the houses had no wooden floors. It's just mud floors.

Yeah, yeah. You say house.

Be talking on something like this 65 years later.

Yeah, I mean, you say house, but really, I mean, most people, I guess in the. In the south, that would be a camp or a cabin, because really it was out. Not in any town. It was out in the delta, like out on the land.

In the delta. This was home.

Yeah, yeah.

In the delta that was home because a lot of our. My dad's relatives and that, they stayed in the delta and they made a living from there. They didn't. They didn't stay in the clavic or in the community that was close by. Yeah, I mean, when I came in from the. From the bush camp, from the trap line, I was three years of age. I stayed out there from. We moved into Inuvik in. In the fall of night in the spring of 1956, just after the ratting season. Okay, can you hear me? I see you moving your ear there.

That's good.

Just after the ratting season. We moved into Inuvik in the spring of 1956. We come in with old Sumler's putt putt boat. And we put a tent down there just beside the. Just below the power plant. That was our home for the first three winters that we were here. Living in that tent cold and I mean, a couple of days. I see one posting a couple of weeks ago from a photo back in 1961, beside the Igloo Church. Temperature was like sitting at minus 61 Fahrenheit. And a couple of days later was sitting at -63 Fahrenheit. A big difference in temperature.

So how old were you when you moved into Newbank, Jerry? You say three.

Three years old? Yeah, I was three when we moved in. At that time in the fall of 53, in September of 53, we were in a clavic getting ready for. To head back up to the busha after, you know, a summer of whaling and picking berries and fishing and so on. And my brother drowned. My older brother, he drowned on the river across there, I think Hudson Bay, Chattah Lake, trying to go up to the boat. And that was part of our life. We used to always want to go to the boat because our grandmother was in the boat, wanted to go and have lunch with her or something. And nobody was really lost sight of him. And boom, he disappeared. They found him in the river and that was what happened.

And their older brother.

That was my older brother. Yeah, his name was Denny. That's when my youngest brother come along later on. Call him Dennis.

Right, right.

Yeah, yeah. And then we. We stayed there, and then we were in the bush for, you know, a couple of years on the trap line. And my dad was. Got a job, I guess, at the do line for a bit. And then in the spring of 1956, he got a job with old man Sumner here in Inuvik operating a stone bow. You know, the stone boat, those skits and, you know, hauling things around, like with a little John Deere cat or something, pulling the stone boat to haul a few things. And then. And then he got approached by Adolf. Adolf was one of the supervisors helping building this town of Inuvik and said, victor, we can give you a job if you want an old man. Sumner says, victor, go to work with him. You got a family. You need a little bit more. I can't pay you what they're paying you. So he did. And then it was at the end of October that year. My sister Shirley, I think, was. I think was the first one born in the new. Born on that riverbank down there.

Okay, so now I know that, Jerry, you've done a really good job of keeping your culture and your traditional values. And what are your. Your youngest memories of what your. Your parents must have done? Some. Some really good parenting in the sense of keeping those. Those values and that lifestyle alive. I mean, you mentioned dog team before. I mean, did you drive dogs when you were young and maintain your language? Now, I'm gonna ask you a bunch of questions wrapped up in one, because part of this story is your very unique cultural background, too, which, you know, at that time was quite very unique. So, you know, what are some of your memories when you were quite young of all of that?

You know, the first spring carnival in Inuvik was held in April of. In the month of April, I believe it was in 1957. At the time, I was four years of age, My mother and my father were busy helping out on the spring carnival. It was right front of our tent anyways, and I think my uncle Hebert Allen and them, they. They built a big giant igloo down there on the river. And Granny Sumner, Father Brown, my mother, my dad, Malcolm Firth, Jim McDonald, and that, they all helped out at the spring carnival. And my mother said we cooked. We cooked carnival cupcakes. We sold them for, like 2 cents each or 3 cents each. And that's what paid for our first spring carnival in the spring of 1957. So that was my start to a lot of the Stuff that I do today. We had the dog team. My dad had a team of seven dogs tied up right there in front of the tent. And once in a while we used to head out to the Delta, him and I. And then when we finally moved to the 512 over by where Northwest Tel is now, our first 512, 32ft long by 16 wide. That's a 512. 512 square feet. You put it on that, you put it on the calculator to come out to 512. But anyways, that's we moved there and we still had the dogs tied up in the back right next to where the town office is, right by that utilitarian system. There's no utilidor there. Then it was just a dog, just a big bunch of willows and the dogs tied in there. And eventually the dogs left. My dad got too busy working. He was busy working at government in the stores. And by the time I was 12 years old, I had a team of my own. I worked for Tom Butters creating the Drum. Yes, down at that shop down there, where the gun shop I think ended up eventually. Somewhere. Somewhere down there.

And just for our listeners who may not know what the Drum is, the Drum was the first newspaper in Inuvik. So that's what Jerry's referring to.

Yeah, and our first newspaper. And I was running the gestetner. You don't hear too much about Gestetner's anymore. But I was running the Gestetner for Mr. Butters and I was getting I think $10 a week, I think $7. $10 a week. After school I used to go there, run the gestetner. And Jimmy McDonald was our mayor. Well, he's not our mayor today, but he was our former mayor. And Jimmy McDonald was our paper boy. I think he was selling papers for like 5 cents or 10 cents each. Just stapled them together, about six pages on long foolscap, you know that 8 and a half by 14. That was the newspaper, the new drum. And I made enough money there that I wanted the dog team of my own. So I went to see George Doolittle. Remember George?

Yes.

God bless his soul. He's gone now, but George had four dogs down there, not far from our house, next, next block down towards the west end of town. I bought four dogs from him for 100 bucks, I think. How I paid him, I don't know. I still don't know how I paid him. I put four dogs behind my mother's house, our 512. And when I was 13 years old, I think is when we moved up to Co Op Hill. We started building that house, my dad, myself and some other people. And when we got moved into that house, I took whatever furniture we had from this one up there. Me and my buddy Roy Smith, Buck or somebody gave me a hand and we hauled the furniture up there with my dog team. There was no moving services, I don't think, in Inuvik, no Manitoulin or nothing. We hauled that stuff up there and then by then I was starting to go to the Mackenzie Delta with my team. I had four dogs. I used to go back and forth to the Delta every weekend. That was my pastime. I, you know, when I became a teenager and 13 and 14 and 15 and 16, I really never hung around in New Vic. I was always in the Delta. I wanted to be a trapper, but I was setting too many of my traps on my grandfather's trap lines out there. And you know, a few times I'd get out there and my traps would be snapped or maybe there might be a raven in it or maybe there might be a Whiskey Jack in it, you know, and I'd take them apart. They come home to Inuvik and my dad say how you made out. Didn't get anything. I think my dad axonat, I think they were. When they come to town, they have. I remember one time I was chatting with them and said hello to them. My dad was with me and they talked to my dad and he never looked. And look at me once in a while. Oh, Lucking or something, I don't know, hunting or whatever. Afterwards they look and they smile and they still say hello and everything else. Finally I said to my dad, I said, what they say there? What are you talking about? Isn't it they told you to take your traps from there on the trap line. They're trying to make a living out there, my boy. You go stay in school. Tell them to stay in school. Might do a lot better. I never did become a trapper. I got a few muskrats over the years. I mean, this time of year is the best time to be out there.

Oh yeah, yeah.

Best eating food that we can get right now. Yeah, that's what I did until I joined the RCMP at the age of 18 in the fall of 1971. And then I, by then I had five dogs. And I give my dogs to my cousin or one of my great, one of my second, third, fourth generation cousins or something. Benjamin. I went to the RCMP and I laid in the barracks right there on the top floor.

Now, your parents, Jerry, very unique. Your background. If you could maybe just explain, folks, your cultural background, because it's a incredible story. And at the time, I think it was a little controversial. You know, your cultural background and your parents. Different cultures.

Yes. You know, as a kid growing up in the Delta, in inuvik in East 3 at the time before went to Nuvik, and then over in the Clavicle, I knew I was. I was Kuchin because my mother came from Okon, Kuchin from there. And I know I was Inuvawit because my father comes from the McKendree Delta. And for many years I was a mixture of Inuvawud and Kwachin. And it was many years later that I heard about my mother and my father getting married. Because when my mother went to school in the Clavic as a 12 year old coming out of Old Crow, all she could speak was Kuchin. So she went to that All Saints school over there in the Clavic. And she said she even slid down the stairs from the second floor because she didn't know how to walk up and down stairs, but she only spoke Kuchingen. By the time she left the school at 16, she lost all her language. Because just the way the government was doing things, you got to take the savage out of the people, and that's what they did. And my father didn't lose his, though. My father kept his. He said he rested a lot, didn't learn very much, but he rested a lot and ended up holding on to his language. By the time they were 16 and 17, my mother set. Her mother wouldn't allow her to marry until she was at least 16. So she got married, I think she was. Let's see. Yeah, she was 16, 17 when my brother was born, I think 18 or something when I was born. Something like that. So anyways, my father, his. My grandmother on my father's side, being in the valley with, had already chosen a wife for her son. And my grandmother on my mother's side being Kuching, did not like the idea that my mother was going with. With my father and because. And then when they decided to get married, she was already in the family way. You know, she had one son already from him and another son was on the way and. And she was very upset with that. Sort of like. Sort of like, what's her beautiful Kuchin daughter doing marrying some kind of muktak eating Eskimo or something? I don't know. Something like that. Yeah. They got married and once the grandchildren started showing up, Rob, the whole world changed from my grandmothers. They loved everybody, you know. And that's just how. That's just how the world works.

Yeah. That's amazing, isn't it?

I think I was. I'd been in the RCMP for a few years and somewhere along the line I. Our uncle Johnny Norberich. Granny Sumner, Agnes Sumner. We also have a Swedish background. Our great grandfather Petter Norberg comes from a place called Hanford in Sweden. And he left hanford as a 14 year old. I believe he was the oldest brother of three other brothers. He had Alfred, he had Oscar and he had Johann. And he left at 14. And as far as I know, he went to Australia on the ships and he was there for a couple of years and. And then left Australia and came to America because the gold rush was on. It was early 1900s. Ended up down below Old Crow in the Yukon. And that's where he met my great grandmother, Dora Quatlati. They got married at Rampart House. And then not long after that, Agnes was born Granny Sumner. Two years later Uncle Johnny was born. And two years later my grandmother was born 1915. She was born March 28th. And they were in Old Crow, Yukon. And then. And then the old man took the two oldest ones to school in Hay river from Old Ko area. Granny and her. Her mother stayed in Old Crow. And then I think after some schooling in he river, they went across the lake and he went trapping north of Yellowknife towards Kogaluktuk Copper Mine, Coqualooktok. And that's where old man Sumner showed up there too. Sumner comes from Portland, Oregon and he ended up up there in that part of the world trapping big tall man. That Sumner was 6 foot 4 or so. He met Agnes Norberich and he married Agnes, I think Granny was about 16, Granny Sumner. And she got married to Sumner and they had three children of their own and adopted one. And then we just found out more and more over the years. And now last summer our relatives came in from Sweden to visit with us.

Oh, nice.

They heard somewhere along the road they were. They were researching their background and they come up to Petter Norberg and they look at it and Petr Norberg sending letters from Kogloktuk or Copper Mine in them days. And him and his son Johan. Agnes is a big girl now. She's going to marry a fellow by the name of Lawrence Semler, better Slim Semler. And Johan and I have been trapping and we're not getting very much in the White Foxes. So hopefully we'll get enough money next year sometime we'll come home for a visit. And it's all in their language, which is Swedish. Uncle Johnny. All this time we've been calling him Uncle Johnny, but his name is. His father spelled his name Johan. Yeah, but we've only known him as Uncle Johnny. But I mean. And that's very interesting to find out who you come from.

Oh, yeah, that whole background.

Yeah, that whole background, you know. And right now they're over in Hantefort. And you mentioned earlier that I was a deputy commissioner for the Northwest Territories, and one year we were sitting in Inuvik and the ambassadors from around the world were here. So Rosa and I, we sat with the ambassador from Japan because my Japanese dog, Musher, went from. My dog mushing friend went from Lake Baikal, Siberia, to Angmaxalik, Southeast Greenland, following the mongolian migration of 20,000 years ago. He did that by dog team. So when that fellow Japanese ambassador was here, when we're sitting with him down at the Mackenzie Hotel having dinner, he brings out a book, and it's about the Mazasumi family.

Oh, right.

Zoom is from Good Hope. Yeah, yeah. And it was about them in Japanese. They write this way.

Yes, up and down.

Yeah, up and down from this side to that. So we chatted with him, and then the ambassador from Sweden is there. So we're chatting away and he says, your grandfather. You ever think about going to your grandfather's country? No. Really thought of it, busy hunting around the delta. Got no time to go and jump on a plane and go away over the sea like that. My cousin Edna went over, you know Edna? Yes, she went over and she had a great time, she said. They came over and they. They visited with us in Inuvik. They visited in Yellowknife for a little bit. They went to Kogloktuklo people and visited with Edna, and them went fishing, char fishing, and had a great time. Then they brought them to Old Crow, Yukon. Danny, Cassie from Old Crow, one of our cousins, took them down to Rampart House where the old man and the old lady were married a hundred and some odd years ago. And then they went to Whitehurst, Yukon, visit there for a while, and then worked their way back to Sweden.

Wow, that history is so, so interesting. And, you know, for someone to know that whole background of where they come from and where their. Their ancestors came from, I think so important for people to have. And one thing, Jerry, that I don't want to lose Is you mentioned going into the RCMP and what, what, what instilled you in you, the desire to join the. The RCMP when you did, you know.

You know what I missed about the RCMP is why the hell wasn't I born about 6 years earlier than I was born? I would have been able to get out there with the dog teams like Otto Byner and Frank Carpenter, Billy Cockney, Bill Cockney, Jim Rattie and those guys. Philip Lanik, my grandpa, Thomas Nijiutti.

You know, some of those great special constables.

Yeah, because I loved the dogs. I used to run the dogs myself as a teenager, but I just ran them because it was something to do and I enjoyed going out to the Delta. But I. I don't know, I just, you know, I used to do a lot of hunting. We did a lot of hunting with Otto Binder. You know Otto? Yes, yes, he's our neighbor. Anyways, over there on Co Opio. And one time I quit high school, I tried to work in Alberta. Our friend from Alberta said, bring him down. See what I can do. My mother said, he said, he'll try to help you. Okay. So I went down there. We went to a place called Adams Lake, BC. God. I shoveled about 110 acres of snow in four days. And one day he said, that snow is gonna hang around here until March. You know, something like that. Why don't you go home or Vancouver for a couple of days? I think I was 17 at the time, somewhere in there. And I said, okay, maybe I'll go home, you know, maybe I'll go back to Newark. So I did. I got on a bus in around Kamloop somewhere or around Adams Lake and into Edmonton. And then his wife and family picked me up there, put me on PWA the next day back to Newik. And that was in the 70s. That was when all that oil and gas activity was going on here. So I was here for about a week or so. I was getting really bored sitting around at my mother's house and up there on Co Op Hill. So I said, I got to do something. No, I don't. I'm not going back to Alberta. I'm not going back to bc. I don't want to shovel snow. My mother got me a job with Crown Catering. It was. We worked at a place called Shell Oil, the base camp out on the West Channel. I ended up being. He said, you got no education. You got no experience really, other than driving dogs and trying to trap muskrats or something. So ended up as A camp attendant, making beds, fixing beds, helping out in the kitchen. 17 years old and jeepers, I got enough of that after two or three shifts out there. Got into a big argument with a supervisor and told him where he should go. And he says, the plane is free for you to jump on the next time it comes in. I said, right on, good riddance. We'll see you guys. And I left him. And then I got back to Nubick and my mother was quite upset because I couldn't go south to work. I wasn't going to school, I wasn't going south to work. I had a bad attitude out there. Got fired from out there. Said, what are you going to do? I said, I'm going to go up the hill over there and go see Auto. You know what? I said, go see Auto. Auto Binder, what are you going to do? I said, I think I'll join the rcmp. How the hell are you going to join the RCMP with an attitude like you have? Well, I'm gonna go and talk to Otto. I want to talk to Otto. And he says, come on down. Ray James. Remember Ray?

Yes, I do.

Yeah, Ray. He had a big mustache and he.

Had an incredible singing voice. Ray James, Yes.

And I went down to the detachment a couple of times with Otto. A few times I went down there during the day and our friends called from BC about me coming back. And I told my mother, tell them I'm really busy. So I went down, I talked to them and one day Otto gave me that, gave me that application form. He said, fill it up. Do something. Don't just walk around in Newik. 17 year old kid, not doing a damn thing. He said, do something. So I filled it out, brought the application back to them there. And then I went over to the Canada Manpower center right next to the Legion. Remember that used to be a. I don't know, it used to be Canada Manpower. I went there and there was a job opening at the Mackenzie Valley Experimental Pipeline down on Navy Road. So I applied and I got a job there that was in March or April. And I put my application in and I was working at the experimental pipeline thing, testing. We did tests with, with the survey equipment to see how much the oil was moving because they had the oil flowing through there underneath, on top of the pilings and in the berm, preparing for what might happen in the Mackenzie Gas project if it never went ahead. Many companies were there. ELF Oil, Esso Shelf. Just about every oil company around the world was sponsoring that. De Kil was looking after it. Okay, so I went there and I got a job and I ended up with a couple of really good working people there. And one of their plans was to take me south and maybe get me on Trans Canada pipeline or something, working for them. Because I was doing quite a nice job there. I really enjoyed what I was doing and I was making an effort to get to work and so on. At the end of October 1st part of November of 1971, that Chris Bergman came to the office down there and said, jerry, you've just been accepted to the RCMP. You gotta be kidding. The RCMP? Right on. I got sworn in on the 9th of November of 1971. And it was Inspector Smith. Ray James, I think, was our sergeant, I think at the time. Not long after that is when Jim Hickling came into Inuvik as our. As our detachment commander. And I stayed up in the barracks there. And then Glenn Williams. Remember Glenn?

I think so.

I'm not sure my age. Yeah, Glenn would probably be 66, 67 now. But he was my age when he came into Newik. He liked hunting. So him and I used to go to Edward Lenny's camp down there at Yaya with a boat. Or eventually we started going down with his airplane. Used to see Johnny Raymond and down there, because Edward was looking after Kitsa, you know. So I joined the rcmp and I showering upstairs in that. In that shower room there one day, chatting with Chris Brigman. He says, I knew it was you. He said, jerry. But he said after I left there, he said, I knew you really wanted to try to change your life around and join the rcmp. So that's what I left it at. Minor consuming. I mean, I don't know if you had a beer when you were 17 or not times. And he said that nude was you. But welcome, he said, to the rcmp. And not only that, I played the guitar a bit. Rob, go to the mess. Remember the mess was upstairs right there?

Yeah, Yeah.

I used to bring my guitar, me and Gary Jenkins, Dave Guy, I don't know if you remember Dave Guy, but Dave ended up down in Red Deer. But Dave had a. Like a saxophone or something. So we used to do that one. Golly. We used to do a few songs together. We used to jam up there. And I was 18 years of age. The boys would allow me to have a beer, but when the Inspector Smith comes in, well, the beer had to go under the table or in between the chairs somewhere. But continue to play your guitar, so I continue to entertain them. Tell Them stories. I learned how to be a storyteller at a very young age and to share my culture with many people. And I continue to do that today. And when I was 14 years old, 15 years old, 16 years old, that's when we started doing the Northern games with Edward Lenny. Okay, okay. Down by Ingamo. And I've been doing that ever since. I mean, you know, Northern Games, Muskrat Jamboree. Those are two things that have been a part of my life right, basically, right from the start. I wouldn't mind been out there with the dog teams like Otto Weiner and those guys, you know, being interpreters and guiding RCMP members around the Mackenzie Delta. But I came in a little bit too late in life.

Yeah. And, you know, my dad has very fond. You know, of course, my dad served up there in the RCMP and very fond memories of the special constables he worked with and how important they were to his life. Otto Binder being one, you know, and, you know, Jerome and from Sigachi. Yeah, yeah. All those guys. Just such an important piece of history in the North.

Oh, golly, yes. Who was that one? He was in charge of a Clavic from 1950 to 1953. Don McDougall. Don, his son came up a couple years ago. I brought him to a clavic.

Okay. Bill Fraser was up there too. Bill Fraser, they called him Wild Bill Fraser was in charge of a clavic for a while as well, I think.

Yeah. But anyway, Don, when I was at parks over there a couple of years ago, before I retired in 2010, a Clavic had 100 years of a clavicle. Their special guest that they brought in was Don and his wife. And so I'm sitting there and the door opens, and here comes this old timer. He's got a cane. His wife is walking with him and the lady, and she says, you're Jerry Kissum. I said, yeah, this is my dad, Don. He's a retired member of the RCMP, and he was stationed in the Clavic from 1950 to 1953. And their brother George was born in a clavic. Not sure if George was the oldest one or not, but he was born in a clavic. So we chatted about a clavic and so on. He said, I been reading about you. You're one of them that had joined the RCMP from this area. That's so nice to hear. We had a great chat. And then he left, and they toured him around Inuvik in the Delta with a helicopter I think one day and the day he was going to go to a clavic the next day he called me up right here at home and said, come on down to the Mackenzie Hotel. She says, dad wants to have a nightcap with you. Says okay, right on about 7 o' clock or 4 at night. And I stopped and picked up Colin. Uncle Colin, remember Colin Allen? Yeah, the Eskimo. The loudest Eskimo in the whole wide world sometimes. And Uncle Colin at that time was 75, I think. And I think that McDougal I think was his name. Was he was 95 or. Yeah, 95 or 97. And he was still getting along quite, quite well. Got a cane, you know, need a little bit of assistance here and there. So we went up to the hotel there, that old hotel, the new hotel, and we sat with him for an hour at a nightcap. He brings out his little bottle of Lamb's Navy rum and poured each one of a little drink of a clavic into the rcmp into good health and calling him or talking and he says to Colin, he says, how old are you, Colin? Cousin? 75. You're just a pup.

That's neat.

It was really interesting. And then his son came up two years ago, I think it was. And I helped Kylek, my nephew, my sister Donna, my youngest sister Donna. Her son Kyle runs the North Tours. He owns Tundra North Tours. Said we got some people to take to a clavic with a boat. Okay. I was going to a clavic. Heck, guy's name is George. That's his dad, Dan. Don was that RCMP member. So I took him to a clavic and introduced him to Danny C. And Annie C. We had a cup of tea over there and toured him around a clavic. I'm not sure with Billy Archie or not, but toured him around a clavic for a little bit and then brought him back here. But he just wanted to go back to a clavic one more time. I hadn't been there since I left in 1953, so I did that. And then he sent me a note afterwards, thank you very much for. For taking me over. And then, and then Mrs. Pierrot, you might have seen it in, in the news a year, two years ago, Mrs. Pierrot in Fort could hope sent that. That Singer sewing machine that she bought for $12 from Don's wife in the Clavey when she was going to school at the. Oh, all those years before school there as a, as a, as a student, you know. Yeah. And yeah, you could. You want to get coffee or something? Go ahead. And she bought a Singer sewing machine, the one with a big table, like, and, you know, and you used a bigger one, Dawn's wife, in the clavic, for like $12. Wow.

All those years.

She's in her 80s and that now, right here in Fort Good Hope.

Yes.

Yeah, I can't use that sewing machine anymore. She said, I want to give it back to that family that I bought it from. Digging. They found them and they crated it all up and sent it off to the family down there in. In. In. In. In Ontario. Yeah, pretty neat. And went all the way there, said goodbye to my sewing machine. Thanks for sewing all those things for me. Her arthritis and everything else was given up. Okay, okay.

So now, Jerry, you were one of the first indigenous regular members of the rcmp, and you went all the way down to, like, you started off as a special constable, then you went south and went through the training in Regina. And that must have been quite the thing to go all the way from Anuvik to, you know, what was a. I mean, it's a pretty disciplined. Can be kind of harsh at times. Going through training. What was that like to go all the way from Anuvik to. All of a sudden you're in Regina and your whole day is laid out for you and very regimented and going through all of that training.

You know, I think one good thing about. One good thing that sort of came out of going down to Regina, Rob, was that I was on the job training here in Inuvik and with members like Bob Braham, Bob Peterson, Glenn Brooks, Chris Bergman, Otto Binder, Ronnie Binder, Frank Carpenter and them giving me a little bit of advice, you know, before I left. And I was able to sort of fit in when I got in there. And we ended up in a troupe of 32 of us in middle of July, 1974. Hotter than hell. I just came out of Tech the night before I got sworn in and tucked by Jim Hicking Jim gave me my. Just let everybody know that I got officially sworn in as a constable in the rcmp. And I did introductions to the Northern games kits and introductions of all our drummers and dancers and elders that were there. And then I jumped on the police plane back to Newark and loaded up the next day off on my way to Regina, Saskatchewan. And it was some tough days there, but, I mean, that was. They were trying to get you sort of ready for what you're going to run into when you get out of there. Yes, the real world, they're just training you. That's all they're doing. The real world is where you run into all these crackheads and all these guys that are having issues with family issues and so on.

Now you went. Yeah. You were stationed several places in Alberta and you were stationed in Calgary before. You know, a pretty big city before you headed up to the Yukon and back over to the territories. What was that like all of a sudden? Policing in a. In a major city in Canada?

It was. It was an experience. I went to a place called Biciger, 40 miles northeast. That was my first, my recruit field training RFT place. Then I went into Calgary. And one of the big things in Calgary, Rob, was that they. They wanted me to learn how to operate in a big city and event that I come home and someday I go back south and end up in something like Edmonton, Vancouver, Calgary, something in the big city setting. So that's why they brought me there a year and a half and. And then I run into a fellow by the name of Day. He used to be stationed in the Clavic in the late 60s, just before the 70s, and he was a staffing officer in Edmonton. We sat for about three hours just talking like this. And finally he said, I better get this paperwork done, he said. Because we were talking about all our friends in the clavicle.

Yes.

Back in the day it was good. I mean it was one good thing about going through training at that time. Rob was Roy and Glengason was. Was in Troop 5. He was our big brother too. And rowing Langston from here, from McLavick.

Okay.

Okay. Yeah. Before I went, when I went in 71, Fred Bennett had just joined.

Okay.

You know Fred.

Yes.

And then in 74, in the spring of 74, Ryan Glangek joined the RCMP. And then I joined the RCMP in July of 74. I'm not sure we had too many other Inuvalwood members that joined as constables and that in the rcmp. A lot of our members were that were of our like inaval and kitchen and that were special constables helping out in that. In that area of work in the rcmp.

And you went.

I got it. I'm running out of power. I'll get my plug in. Just give me a minute.

Okay, sure. So you went after being stationed some places in Alberta. Jerry, you went up to the Yukon and you were in Pelly Crossing, I think. And my dad was. Was wanted me to ask you if you were stationed there by yourself in Pelly Crossing to his Memory. You were the only member at the time you were there.

I was the only member in Pelly.

Okay.

After Calgary, Rob, I went to a place called Manning Alberta. Up in the river country. Beautiful country, beautiful part of the world. I started up a dog team there again when I left. When I came out of training Rob, I had a little green Volkswagen 5 speed. My wife and I got married. Our oldest one was born in Calgary and that was her chariot for a year or so. And then next one was going to be born in. Wow. We got to move from Manning Alberta to. To Whitehorse, Yukon. What the heck. We got no room for two kids in that little car and six dogs. And so I bought a Chevrolet truck and I moved up our family from. I got called and there was an opening in Whitehorse Yukon. Because when I put in my application. I don't know if you remember those days or not, but we all had to apply for northern service.

Yes.

And even. Even though I came from Inuvik and the Delta, I had to apply for northern service. So I filled out the forms and they said they wanted sort of three reasons why you'd like to go north to do northern service above the 60th parallel or something like that. And I said well number one I'm an Eskimo and I think number two that I'm from that area and I wouldn't mind to go back there and do some policing in that area. And I'm really not sure what number three was but probably in the file somewhere. But we all had to apply. Everybody had to apply in them days to come north. More likely your dad had to do the same thing too. You bet many of the members. So that, that process took. It was September of 76 when I went to talk to them in White in when they came down to see me in Calgary. And then it was. It was September of 1978. August of 78 they called. There's an opening in Whitehorse Yukon. Wow. Are you interested? Turn right. We're interested. So we got, we got, we sold. Sold the trailer, bought the truck, traded off the car, bought the truck, waited for our second child to be born at the Peace of Rahul Hospital. That was Trisha. Went back to Manning. Everything was pretty well gone already. Stayed at our friends in Manning for a couple of days and then we're sitting in Whitehurst on the 20th of September 1978 hauling six dogs in the truck, Rosa, myself and then two kids and we just took our whole family and that's what we had and it was great to get to White Earth, because we're running into friends and family from home and so on. A little bit easier to get from there to here. That was the fall of 1978. The summer of 79 is the Dempster highway was open. It didn't officially open until September of 79.

Okay.

Don Diefenbaker wanted to build that road to resources, right?

That's right. The road to resources.

One day in the summer of. In the early fall of 79, I met Freddie. Freddie Blake. You know, Freddie from McPherson. You know, Freddie was a. Was a funny lake. I met him in Whitehorse, and I said, why? Wow. How did you get here? Because you had NWT plate. He said, we drove on that highway, the Dempster. And how did you get across? He said, robert, Alexei.

Oh, Robert.

Robert had that little barge. That little orange barge was pushing through that. You'll see it in NWT archives once in a while. And pushing through that little scow. 20 horsepower outboard motor on the back, bringing people across at eight miles over there. So I said, wow. I said, how much? He said, 30 bucks. I said, right on. So we packed up a couple of days later. We're gonna go to Inuvik for a little holiday. Rose and I and the kids. Was Ivan with us? AMA just asked that, so we left. No, no, Ivan was with us because we had to push that guy out of the ditch, Remember? Yeah. And anyways, we made it to Eagle Plains. Was raining when we. When we passed Eagle Plains, we got to get across that bridge, and it was all clay. So we slid into the ditch there with that Chevy crew cab we had. So we sat there all night. Nobody coming around anywhere. We sat. And when the rain stopped in the morning, then we helped a guy with a Volkswagen. Over there was a Volkswagen van. We helped him up the hill, and then we went back and got our truck out of there and worked our way up the hill. And when we got to Fort McPherson, Robert Alexei is going across with his little barge. And he says. He comes over to Mary Vitrokov, to Jew. Marys were sitting there waiting. He comes over. He says, you want to go across river? I said, yeah, well, let's go then. Well, I said, gee, there's about five or six vehicles ahead of me. He said, it's my. It's my barge. Not there. So you want to go? Let's go waving at people. Get down there. We get on the far side, and I said, robert, I says, how much your family? He said, whatever you want to pay. Up to you. I said somebody said 30 bucks. He said, well, give me 30 then. Yeah, that was the ferry system of the Atlante side. Wanted to go back to the Yukon.

Just so people listening know that's the Peel River. So Eagle Plains and you head down Northwest Territories, you go across the Peel river and then you head to the Mackenzie River. Across the Mackenzie river and then you're on to Inuvik. So that was the scowl that was taking people across the.

The Peel River. That's right. Yeah. So anyways, while I. When we got across, I was going to pay him and some other fellow on the, on the Fort McPherson size wants to go to the Eagle Plain site over there. Robert says $50. Wow. He said, okay, man, he was making money. I think they shut him down. But I mean, people got to travel though, you know.

Yeah.

When we got to the Arctic Red one, they had a ferry there. Yes, the Arctic Red system. And it was a week or 10 days later that I headed back to the Yukon and they had a ferry at Fort McPherson. So we were in the Yukon. We went to Whitehorse. We were there for about four years. And then from Whitehorse we went to a place called Pelly Crossing, right in the middle of between Whitehorse and Dawson City, pretty well smack in the middle there along the Pelly River. We were there for 14 months. And then I got transferred to Watson Lake down at the south end of the Yukon. The gateway to the Yukon and Pelle Crossing was. I was. It was a satellite detachment to Carmax.

Okay.

I was in Pelley Crossing by myself for the 14 months. And many good people in Peli, many good people that I got along with and met in my time that I was there. I was still stopping when we travel now. And then a couple other members when I left Pelle, they turned that into a detachment of its own. And they were looking for somebody to be the corporal there and the member to be the second person in Peli. By the time I left peli, I had 14 dogs again. Holy smokes. We went to Watson. Pelle was yacht. We were there and. And then Pelle, Watson Lake. And then when we're down in Watson Lake, it was, you know, we were really looking forward to maybe going back to Peace river country, a beautiful country over there in northern Alberta. Things didn't quite work out and eventually I put in an application to try to come back to here, to the Northwest Territories, this side somewhere, you know. And what happened is when they came through, when they finally came through with us coming back here, there was an opening in Fort McPherson. There's one over there in the Clavic and one in tuck. So Fort McPherson already had somebody. When I asked him about it, okay, the Clavic already had somebody identified for a Clavic. So. So we went to Tuck. We went to Tuck in the right after Expo 86, okay, we went to Vancouver, Rose and I and the kids. We had three children out of Watson. We drove down to Vancouver, went to the Expo for a couple of days and over to the island visiting friends, and then drove back up to Watson Lake and then back here to New Vic and then eventually on our way to Tuck. And we were there for two years. We went there in August of 86 and we conquered out a tux and.

Then back to Inuvik. And you retired from Inuvik. And one thing I wonder, Jerry, is when you. I guess it would be. It would apply the most when you were stationed in Tuck and in Inuvik, being an indigenous person from the area and being then put in a situation, you're. You're policing people that you may have known for years. You're policing a smaller, you know, community. Inuvik's about 3,000, 3,000 people. And did that make it difficult, you know, to. You're expected to, you know, uphold the law and be a peace officer. And a lot of the people you know and you're friends with and there's family as well. Is that a difficult situation or how did you handle that aspect of policing?

You know, Rob, it was very nice, I think, of the RCMP to have me working in Bicycle, Alberta, working in Calgary, Alberta, working in Manning, Alberta, White Horse, Yukon, Pelly, Watson Lake, prepared me for sort of coming home, because once I got home then I knew quite a bit more about doing the work that you're hired to do as a peace. And a lot of the ones that I was. I was dealing with in our communities here were more like the kids of those guys that I grew up with. Yes, it was 14 years by the time I left here and come back. So those that were my age and starting to maybe have families already when I left here, by the time I come back at 14 years later, I was dealing mostly with their. With their kids. Then I was also doing a lot of. I did a lot of community policing, community police, community relations. I did a lot of career fairs. And a few years later, the CEO of the Northwest Territories of G Division, one day we were having a dinner down here and says, after. After I'd retired actually, and said, you know, why didn't we bring you home in 1975 when you came out of training. I said, no, it wasn't a good idea. I don't think the way I. The way the trail that I followed afterwards after training turned out quite nice compared to what might have happened. I said, In 1975. In 1975, 1974, Caligasic knew me. He was the staffing officer sort of staffing up here. When I did meet Cal in Whitehorse after I got transferred to the Yukon in 1978, he says, I really hope you're not upset that you didn't go back to the nwt, Jerry, after training. No, no. He said I was responsible for that. He said, I remember when you left Inuvich and some things that were happening at that time. And he said, I didn't think it was. It was going to be a healthy environment for you to go back there.

Right.

No problem. That's okay. This is great. We're in Whitehorse, Yukon. Everybody wants to go to White Horse. They had an opening there for me. It was good. I enjoyed it. Good.

Yeah. So all that previous work prepared you for handling some of the more difficult.

Even when I. Even when I was here as a special constable, Rob, for those couple of years before I went down to. Before I went down to training in Regina, Saskatchewan, it was all sort of on the job training.

Yes.

You know, and even when I was going to get ready to go to training, people like Chris, people like Bob Graham, you know, Otto, Glenn Brooks and all those guys, Glenn Williams and all them were telling me about training, just do this, just do that, you know, mind your own business, you know, and do what they tell you to do. Otherwise they're gonna make life really rough for you.

Right.

We had a good time. We had lots of fun. We did lots of running, lots of. Lots of learning how to shoot the revolvers. And then after that was training on the gravel was not bad driving. I did that at International Speedway in Edmonton after I got transferred to Manning Calgary, I think it was. And they sent me up to the speedway for a weekend, a driving course one time, high intensity driving for. That was fun. We had those old K specs trying to blow up the engines.

Now after you retired from the rcmp, you were assistant commissioner. So you had that experience. It's a little more political and an honour to be, you know, to be chosen for that position with the government. And just looking now, I mean, you had the RCMP experience, the political experience and looking at where you are today, you're an incredible ambassador for the Arctic, you stay active in all of the things that happen in the community. You emcee a lot of events, you act as a guide and showing people the north. If you had to tell somebody, you know, some of the challenges that. What are some of the challenges that the north is facing now, as you see it, you know, going forward?

You know, I think one of the biggest challenges that we're facing right now, Rob, is climate change. Our little island out there where we had the beluga whale, that island that's on the outside, which is our barrier island, like, is deteriorating by 30 to 50 meters a year. That's a lot more disappears. That's a lot. Yes, it's gonna hit our little island. That little island where our camp is, it might eventually disappear.

Yes.

Waters are changing. You know, people have to, for the North, I think, get ready for what's going on with climate change, what's going on with permafrost conditions up here. Yes, we're building our houses yet on pilings and so on, but, you know, we have to be aware that climate change is front and center. I think that we have to be very careful up here now. We're getting a lot of the drugs that are coming into the south communities, and we have to be very careful with our young people and really, hopefully that we can, you know, somehow slow down that the sale and the consumption of some of those illegal drugs that are coming in. I know that marijuana has been been legalized and that's okay. It's just a soft drug. It's been there. It was there when we were first joining the rcmp. Well, my time, anyways. I mean, not sure about the other fellows like your dad and them, but. Right. And then it just kept getting more and more. And now we're having some of those issues. We still have, you know, we still have the social issues. We still have the social issues that we have to deal with, you know, and we have to continuously, I think, try to educate our children and our grandchildren and so on about how to try to make tomorrow a better day. I know that we have issues sometimes, even with the RCMP in the north, but I always say we have to be a part of it. We have to be a part of the solution where we're indigenous to the North. Let's. Let's become peace officers in our own communities and let's work with our people. Yeah, we're gonna move ahead. We're not gonna move ahead by continuously going back 35 years ago when my mother was in school or 65, 70 years ago when my parents were in school. We have to go.

Yeah, keep. Keep the. Keep the old culture and accept the new.

And, oh, the culture is. Yeah, yeah. I take my grandson, my son Drew a couple of years ago said, I know how to get to the whale camp now. He says, I really know how to get there now. But gee, I like traveling with you, though. And, you know, I traveled with my dad all those years going back and forth, you know, and my grandson, too. He says, I know how to get there now, but gee, it's always nice to have you in the boat with us.

Oh, that's nice.

You know, you got to teach those kids about. About the life and. And times of what's going on out in the delta, because that's our home. Yeah, that's our home out there.

Now you have the muskrat jamboree coming up, and Inuvik is an amazing place. It's in the Mackenzie Delta, and the Delta is, you know, phenomenal. There's so many different things to see. What message would you give to people who haven't been, you know, from other parts of the world in the south? Because we have a lot of listeners from all over the place. And what would you tell them about Inuvik and the Mackenzie Delta?

You know, come on up to the great Mackenzie Delta, the second largest delta in North America, number one being the Mississippi. Come and join us in games of. Games of the day and come and join us for some of our cultural activities. We have our drummers and dancers coming out pretty well each night of our weekend. We have our fiddle players and guitar players coming out. A lot of activity going on, and we share that with each and everyone, and everyone is more than welcome. We don't turn anyone away.

That's fantastic. And you know, Jerry, I'm going to throw.

Where?

I've kept you long enough. Really appreciate your time. I'm going to throw one sneaky question at you.

Okay.

Name of the Edmonton football team. The Edmonton Eskimos. I get a lot of different opinions on that from people all across the north, what they think about that name and whether it should stay the same or it should change. What do you think?

You know, Rob, as a kid growing up, I was in Eskimo. And then all of a sudden when the land claims and that came along and everything got sort of on the politically correct side, we were in a valve. I'm sort of on the fence with that one. I don't mind going down and seeing a game every so often of the Edmonton Eskimos. If they decide to change their name, I guess it's up to them. But I'm not going to go and get too far in there. I'm on the fence with that one. Like I say, I was inuvalwit. I was a lushu. I was a Kuchin. I was a half breed. Okay.

No, that.

That.

You know what? I'm kind of like you. I'm on the fence as well. And I really like the way you put that. That's tremendous. So thank you very much, Jerry. And you know what? I want you. I want you to commit to me right now that we'll do this again sometime. And maybe when we do this again, it'll just be telling stories. I mean, stories. Well, you've told a lot of stories so much today, but people up north are storytellers, and I'd love to spend.

Some more time with you, you know? Yes, we'll do some stories sometimes. Yes, let's do that for another one.

Okay, Sounds good. So thank you very much, Jerry. You take care.

Hey, take care, Rob. Okay, Good night.

Thank you for listening to this episode of Arctic the Culture Cure. For more information about my novels or to inquire about my presentations, please Visit my website, www.robertfagan.com. we'll join you again on the next episode of Arctic the Culture Cure.